Curse

arcanemacabre · Mar 20, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Good point, except that collector weapons come fully modded.

Maybe you can direct me to those collectors, because I looked through the list, and all I see are collectors that have weapons with either inherent damage mods, or blank inscriptions, but none of them modded (save for some caster weapons and off-hands/shields). I do believe you would still have to purchase them from players, or get lucky with drops.

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

You can make 100k playing through the game.

Thats enough money for you? Lol!

Sorry, 100k wouldnt be enough for me. Before loot scaling I had 500k which got spent (no idea what on now, I never buy weapons off other players)

After loot scaling the most Ive ever had saved up was 60k. And Ive already completed every game so boo hoo, I dont get anything out of doing it again.

beanerman_99 · Mar 20, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I am confused. Doesn't loot scaling make it harder to find/get items from drops and removing it would make it easier? And then by removing it and making it easier to farm/get items yourself shouldn't the prices go down? Confused by people saying LS made the prices of things drop. If they are harder to come by shouldn't the prices have gone up???

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Maybe you can direct me to those collectors, because I looked through the list, and all I see are collectors that have weapons with either inherent damage mods, or blank inscriptions, but none of them modded (save for some caster weapons and off-hands/shields). I do believe you would still have to purchase them from players, or get lucky with drops.

The first one I clicked on was Vabbi collectors and they are all fully modded. Obviously when you had a look you must have clicked on the ascalon collector /fail.

Any way, when you finish factions / nf / eotn, you get a free fully modded green and can choose from a wide range of plentiful weapons to suit your needs, so no, no one has to buy weapons from other players. You can also try opening chests yourself and getting your own weapons for a change ffs. The only reason to buy weapons off other players is for rare skins, and if you want one of them, you have to pay. Why should the farmer waste their time farming the weapon and you expect to buy it for 10k?

Coolquest · Mar 20, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

Collector armor, collector weapons ftw.

If you wanna be the leetpwnxor at PvE with all your leetpwnxor friends, then you may need a little more money up front. Otherwise you don't. You can get through the game with beginner skills if you want. You don't have to buy everything all at once.

Ever just use henchies? I did for all of Factions. Didn't have to buy them anything.

Maybe some people want GOOD looking armor, and just don't want to be arsed to farm for 8 hours a day for a year till they can afford a single piece of an elite armor-set. Yeah sure its an exaggeration, but Anet really looks like dumbasses when they say the casual player can make money, because unless you farm everyday for at least an hour or two, you're not going to make jack ****.

Farming used to be something you could pick up a buck here or there and save up, from trolls or griffons. Now, warrs have hardly anywhere they can farm, bots still don't care because they have an infinite patience, people who just play a little bit here and there make 1/10000 of what hard-core farmers make

Why can't casual players actually make some decent cash like Anet claims they can? I know alot of replies to this are gonna be that you can make LOADS of cash, but I have tried all those, as I have a 55,warr,ranger, and ritualist, and none of those runs make more than like 2k per every few runs. Also, not everyone in GW is as knowledgable as you guys, that, AND not everyone has every campaign, so they don't have the skills/campaign needed to make good cash, it makes me wonder if Anet some of this into consideration before they beat everyone to death with the nerf-bat.

Its sad that you have to cut corners with collectors armor because we can't afford elite armor like everyone used to be able too. (Not joking, farming used to be profitable

)

I wouldn't mind the way farming works if it really couldn't have been done any other way. It just doesn't make sense to me if you think about it, this is basicly what it could've been either way:

Anet does nothing

Those "casual" players they claim to support can still buy, despite the super-inflated economy:

Elite armor
Salvaging kits
ID kits
All the skills and cap signets they need.

Anet nerfs everything to hell

Bos don't care, they still farm 24 hours a day because they don't get angry and stop farming after zero drops in 40 runs.

The "casual" players Anet claims to support cannot buy:

Elite armors
They are getting reamed by skill trainers charging 1k a shot for the skill.
They gotta pay high prices for good ID and salvage kits they don't have as much money for.

This is excluding the 2k or so you pay for the runes and insignias for each individual piece of armor AND the weapons AND the shields.

Gli · Mar 20, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanerman_99

I am confused. Doesn't loot scaling make it harder to find/get items from drops and removing it would make it easier? And then by removing it and making it easier to farm/get items yourself shouldn't the prices go down? Confused by people saying LS made the prices of things drop. If they are harder to come by shouldn't the prices have gone up???

Loot scaling only affects regular drops. It doesn't do anything with the droprates of rares, greens, dyes, tomes, scrolls, rare materials, DoA gemstones and special event drops. The only things affected by lootscaling are the things we merchant for gold. Nothing else changes except the amount of gold that enters the economy. With less gold to go around, prices of traders (both in-game and players) will drop. And they did.

Kattar · Mar 20, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Maybe some people want GOOD looking armor, and just don't want to be arsed to farm for 8 hours a day for a year till they can afford a single piece of an elite armor-set. Yeah sure its an exaggeration, but Anet really looks like dumbasses when they say the casual player can make money, because unless you farm everyday for at least an hour or two, you're not going to make jack ****.

By "good" you mean "elite."

Elite armors, titles, etc. weren't introduced for the casual player. Ask any of the old timers how it used to be.

CHannum · Mar 20, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

/notsigned

Started long after lootscaling went into effect and love it. Every game I've ever played remotely similar to this has had some form of lootscaling and it was a mistake they failed to implement in the beginning. Simply put, the game is designed around party based play, and the loot given is rewarded based on the assumption of said party play.

Just because you figure out some way of exploiting a particular region (*cough* raptor's nest *cough*) to get by with only one or two characters does not mean you should be rewarded for it by taking all the loot originally intended for eight players.

I have zero problem making more than enough money to keep me playing the game and outfitting my characters as I see fit. Other than the likely <5% of the player base that regularly take part in player-to-player sales, loot scaling never had any marked effect other than adjust the vendor npc prices on player supplied goods.

All removing loot scaling would accomplish is let those who think things *should* cost 100K + XXXe actually get similar prices again while driving up prices for the other 95%+ of the player base who would not benefit since, shudder, they'd still be playing the game as designed.

If loot scaling is keeping the elitist asshats out of this game, more power to it.

Fril Estelin · Mar 20, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Maybe some people want GOOD looking armor, and just don't want to be arsed to farm for 8 hours a day for a year till they can afford a single piece of an elite armor-set. Yeah sure its an exaggeration, but Anet really looks like dumbasses when they say the casual player can make money, because unless you farm everyday for at least an hour or two, you're not going to make jack ****.

This is SO wrong. I've been farming casually and I got my first 100k (total, not cumulative) yesterday (yooo hooo

I hear you lauging at the back of the room!) It hasn't really been difficult, hulking stone and raptor (this one is trickier) and I may envisage going for glacial stones and d-cores, though I don't really have the time atm.

In short: no it's no madness, I wouldn't call it fun from my side, but I guess some people love it.

Btw, if by elite armor you mean the 15k ones, I don't think they're insanely difficult to achieve. On the other hand, the obsidian one may be seriously challenging, which is a good thing (though it may be frustrating, I like the look of obsidian Ele).

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Loot scaling only affect regular drops. It doesn't do anything with the droprates of rares, greens, dyes, tomes, scrolls, rare materials, DoA gemstones and special event drops. The only things affected by lootscaling are the things we merchant for gold. Nothing else changes except the amount for gold that enters the economy. With less gold to go around, prices of traders (both in-game and players) will drop. And they did.

Or to put it in easier words, after LS, we still got the same number of gold (weapon) drops, but only 1\8 as much gold (coins). Players have a lot less money now and the same number of items to sell, so prices fell. I would love for the prices to go up again so I can sell my golds to players again instead of the merch. And as previously pointed out, if you dont want to pay for the items, end game greens ftw.

So if they remove LS, its win win for everyone.

CHannum · Mar 20, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Maybe some people want GOOD looking armor, and just don't want to be arsed to farm for 8 hours a day for a year till they can afford a single piece of an elite armor-set. Yeah sure its an exaggeration, but Anet really looks like dumbasses when they say the casual player can make money, because unless you farm everyday for at least an hour or two, you're not going to make jack ****.

B.S.

I started playing in November and get to play a few hours a day, *never* farm, and just put my second complete set of elite on a character. With as many characters as I have in late game areas now, the rate of income is enough that I can expect with only slightly more than casual input of time be able to afford a set of elite every month. Frankly, being able to get it any faster would devalue the concept of elite.

People who aren't making enough money in the current game just aren't playing the game, they're expecting to have things handed to them. Heck, I've made enough just putting weapons on my heros in the past six weeks with the BMP to almost afford a suit of elite.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Mar 20, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Maybe some people want GOOD looking armor, and just don't want to be arsed to farm for 8 hours a day for a year till they can afford a single piece of an elite armor-set. Yeah sure its an exaggeration, but Anet really looks like dumbasses when they say the casual player can make money, because unless you farm everyday for at least an hour or two, you're not going to make jack ****.

Farming used to be something you could pick up a buck here or there and save up, from trolls or griffons. Now, warrs have hardly anywhere they can farm, bots still don't care because they have an infinite patience, people who just play a little bit here and there make 1/10000 of what hard-core farmers make

Why can't casual players actually make some decent cash like Anet claims they can? I know alot of replies to this are gonna be that you can make LOADS of cash, but I have tried all those, as I have a 55,warr,ranger, and ritualist, and none of those runs make more than like 2k per every few runs. Also, not everyone in GW is as knowledgable as you guys, that, AND not everyone has every campaign, so they don't have the skills/campaign needed to make good cash, it makes me wonder if Anet some of this into consideration before they beat everyone to death with the nerf-bat.

A-net claims casual players can make all they need. 1 set of weapons some max armor and maybe a few skills this is about 20kish max. Elite armors are "Elite" for a reason they are not supposed to be for casual players. They are supposed to be for players who play more religeously and have put time into the game. And I have over 200k from a week of farming 2hish a day. Trolls and Griffons and such are not good farms anymore not at all.

papryk · Mar 20, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

You can make 100k playing through the game. I've outfitted 10 heroes with money made from just playing the game. All heroes have golds/greens or collector items.

Warrior hero - Green sword from CoF = 1K
Shield purchased from NPC = 5k+materials (+30hp included -2stance inscription 1k)

Total price <10k

Heroes don't need multiple sets. Heroes don't need fancy armour, and sup vigors. Play them well and they can survive anything with basic equipment.

and where is the money for skills? (you + heroes)

Coolquest · Mar 20, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

By "good" you mean "elite."

Elite armors, titles, etc. weren't introduced for the casual player. Ask any of the old timers how it used to be.

In the "old times" the only thing keeping every smuck from getting elite armor was the location, I remember how I fought to get to places like the granite citadel, and marhans grotto, now you can just get a sin/derv to run you there no problem. I've beaten every campaign, have multiple level 20's, the only thing left for me to do now is make money so I can get nice looking armor and get new skills.

I can make about 50k a week if I solo the UW, but my internet connection can be very laggy at times, and lag in the UW = death, especially if you're running from ataxes. I realize my argument has its flaws, and there are expections, but I just wish Anet would take a stance on this, instead of saying stuff about casual players, maybe make some guides on what areas are more profitable, official guides.

When you've done as much as I have, the line between what you "Need" by anets standards, and what I "want" after I've done so much in PVE, it becomes very frustrating

RLBadKarma · Mar 20, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

I'm still not totally clear as to the purpose of LS. First, it's to scale back the ability of the gold sellers to amass their gold inventory, then it's to promote team activity, then it's to help control the in-game economy, then...etc etc.

From my point of view, as a casual gamer who farms from time to time, if you boil it down to it's root, it's really a fun killer.

Example: Last night I was going through the Shards of Orr 1st lvl on my way to the Bloodstone. I was H/H by myself and made it to through, but the only drops I got, including cash, was 102gp and a white scythe!!!! How can fighting your way through 3 mobs of assorted skeletons and zombies and getting nothing for it be considered fun?

Bring back the fun, remove LS!!

/signed

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

and where is the money for skills? (you + heroes)

We all know you dont need skills to play the game. All you need is starting skills, send your toon to eotn, get free PVE skills and put 3 on your bar (so now you only need 4 actuall skill and a res sig), and get ursan asap. Once you have ursan you dont need anything else

P.S this post is sarcasm.

Gli · Mar 20, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLBadKarma

Example: Last night I was going through the Shards of Orr 1st lvl on my way to the Bloodstone. I was H/H by myself and made it to through, but the only drops I got, including cash, was 102gp and a white scythe!!!! How can fighting your way through 3 mobs of assorted skeletons and zombies and getting nothing for it be considered fun?

Bring back the fun, remove LS!!

/signed

Your example has nothing to do with lootscaling. Without lootscaling, your full party would receive the exact same drops.

Kattar · Mar 20, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

In the "old times" the only thing keeping every smuck from getting elite armor was the location, I remember how I fought to get to places like the granite citadel, and marhans grotto, now you can just get a sin/derv to run you there no problem. I've beaten every campaign, have multiple level 20's, the only thing left for me to do now is make money so I can get nice looking armor and get new skills.

I can make about 50k a week if I solo the UW, but my internet connection can be very laggy at times, and lag in the UW = death, especially if you're running from ataxes. I realize my argument has its flaws, and there are expections, but I just wish Anet would take a stance on this, instead of saying stuff about casual players, maybe make some guides on what areas are more profitable, official guides.

When you've done as much as I have, the line between what you "Need" by anets standards, and what I "want" after I've done so much in PVE, it becomes very frustrating

I totally agree with you and am in the same boat on that. I want a ridiculous amount of money as well so I can buy whatever I want whenever.

But I don't want to do it at the expense of players that haven't achieved as much.

arcanemacabre · Mar 20, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The first one I clicked on was Vabbi collectors and they are all fully modded. Obviously when you had a look you must have clicked on the ascalon collector /fail.

I checked the Vabbi collectors, and yeah, no go. Seriously give me a link, cause all I see is modded caster stuff. Don't see any swords/axes/daggers/hammers/scythes/spears modded at all.

CHannum · Mar 20, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLBadKarma

I'm still not totally clear as to the purpose of LS. First, it's to scale back the ability of the gold sellers to amass their gold inventory, then it's to promote team activity, then it's to help control the in-game economy, then...etc etc.....
Example: Last night I was going through the Shards of Orr 1st lvl on my way to the Bloodstone. I was H/H by myself and made it to through, but the only drops I got, including cash, was 102gp and a white scythe!!!! How can fighting your way through 3 mobs of assorted skeletons and zombies and getting nothing for it be considered fun?

Bring back the fun, remove LS!!

Methinks you don't know what lootscaling does, because it would not help in your situation.

Let's say that the formula for total non-rare goods that can drop from a particular badass is [Max Loot for PB][1*(n/n) + 1*(n-1/n) + 1*(n-2/n) + ... + 1*(1/n)] where n = max party size for the area. Without loot scaling, the party always splits up this total amount of goods, even if that party size is one. With loot scaling, for every player less than max, you drop the right most 1*(n-X/n) increase such that a soloer still makes more than he would in a full party but doesn't get all the same loot as the sum total of a full party. Why this doesn't help you is that hench and heros count the same as a human player for division of all loot.

People calling for the removal of loot scaling want the ability to solo/duo farm exploitable elite and/or HM areas and keep everything a party of eight would have shared for themselves. It doesn't help the casual player at all and in fact would inflate prices of the handful of player traded goods you might have a hankering for even further from your reach.